I just released my first Papervision3D game this last friday (3/9/2007) , and received a ton of great feedback from users who tried the ObstacleCourse game. Thanks to EVERYONE who went out and put up their best scores!! Its been alot of fun to see people out there on the leader board.
Some of the comments I received were about controlling the game and how it was actually hard to do. And you know what? That’s about the best compliment I could have received on this game. Why? Because it IS hard to play – but completely doable. I was getting comments like:
- I can’t play on my tablet
- I can’t use my touch pad, it’s just way out of control
- I can’t control it with my track ball
- I don’t have time to learn how to fly THAT good
You know what I like about hearing those type of comments? They never once said “it isn’t playable, this sucks.” Instead, I got comments like this:
- can you let me turn off Invert Mouse?
- can you roll the ship slightly as you turn?
You betcha! (check out the options panel, you can turn off the inverted mouse)
They’re sold on the fact that this game will deliver, so now their thoughts focus on managing the game play with whatever they’re used to – they’ve gone from flash traditional into a new expectation for flash gaming.
When you approach a “flash” game, you assume you can use a drawing tablet or touch pad. You assume that the level of difficulty in a twitch based “flash” game isn’t going to surpass what you can accomplish with either of those devices. This is something completely different than we’re used to.
One of the goals of this game, and Paperworld, is to show the power of AS3 and Papervision3D’s engine. When you get into the game (especially full screen), you completely forget your using Flash at that point. It’s FAST on most machines, the controls play like most space based flight sims and the graphics only lack what abilities I have in design. And the work flow to create such games is incredibly fast, not to mention the fact that since we’re dealing with “Flash” we’ve opened up the flood gates for a VERY broad audience to create and participate in some killer 3D content!
So, I think my final thought on the comments about being able to use drawing tablets and touch pads is this: Of course you can’t!! it’s a real friggin’ game ( being nice of course ) ! Its far from being some quaint marketing toy that amuzes for some short period of time. This is the real deal, and it’s going to be VERY exciting to see what comes out of 2007 with flash gaming, AS3 and Papervision3D engine. I really think it’s going to blow away just about every baked in preconceived notions we’ve all come to expect with flash work.
ROCK ON \m/ – John
* apologies to Ralph for using his touchpad email in reference 
He actually did quite a bit of testing on the game before it’s release! LOVE YOU.
March 12, 2007 at 6:11 am |
[...] New era of Flash gaming? Yeah, I think so. [...]
March 12, 2007 at 10:17 am |
I think its interesting that with the advent of systems such as xbox live – we are starting to see a slow trickle of original web games emerge as products on these systems. Successes such as this, are perhaps opening our minds to the fact that flash games can be more than just super dumbed down promotional gimics for reebok or HSBC (other shoes/banks are available) … I guess we have become conditioned in these promotional games to not expect stunning gameplay or depth, something ive always believed is a terrible waste…
3D again raises expectations. After all a great number of homes have (at least) a PS2, and are very used to the 3D game experience. When flash was 2D the comparison is difficult to make, as a web game is easily visual distinct from a console one. Hopefully these preconceived expectations the audience will bring from their console games, will push us more and more to begin to look deeper at issues such as gameplay and control. If we can combine this with the flair for original experimentation that flash has traditionally nurtured we have to be onto a winner, and indeed a new dawn.
Also, lets keep half an eye on the future. Despite their protests, its almost inconceivable that Adobe will not embrace some form of hardware accelerated native 3D in flash in some future release (both the momentum and creative desire is there at least). If and when that does happen, the game will really have been upped, and these experiment’s and knowledge we are creating now will only become ever more important.
March 12, 2007 at 12:56 pm |
very well said Pete, I couldn’t agree more, thanks for the comment!
I believe Adobe is VERY interested in 3D. Just the fact that Papervision3D has at least 2 flash player developers from Adobe on the mailing list tells us that there’s a bit more than casual interest I think.
Thanks again Pete!
March 12, 2007 at 1:21 pm |
Papervision seems to be really cool, when are you planning to release first version for public use?
March 12, 2007 at 2:31 pm |
New era of Flash gaming? Yeah, I think so
I just released my first Papervision3D game this last friday (3/9/2007) , and received a ton of great feedback from users who tried the ObstacleCourse game. Thanks to EVERYONE who went out and put up their best scores!! Its been alot of fun to see peop…
March 12, 2007 at 5:44 pm |
Новая эра флэш-игр? Papervision3D Wiki и первая 3D-игра на движке PV3D
У Papervision3D появилась своя вики. Для начинающих — лучше не придумаешь. А начать можно, например, с Papervision3D FAQ и уроков по PV3D. С PV3D уже можно поиграться не только в редакторе кода: встречайте первую игру на движке PV3D (собственно игра…
March 12, 2007 at 5:58 pm |
Good beginning. I think such projects are strong movers toward the desired 3D acceleration support in Flash Player.
The more developers use 3d features, the higher the possibility to have real 3d support in next update/version of Flash Player. I think Adobe is pretty cool in the trends to not miss this point now, when 3d flash applications is starting to appear as often as mushrooms after the good rain.
So maybe it is (or will be soon) good time to arrange a comprehensive list of required 3D features to provide Adobe with full info about most wanted features that flash platform developers want to have implemented for the 3d support in flash player?
I remember the Colin Moock’s petition about (pre)loading data in flash have worked well =)
March 12, 2007 at 6:01 pm |
The engine seems pretty cool, to say the least, but I’m not a fan of the game itself.
I found the controls pretty wacky and the objective a bit boring. For a tech demo it gets the job done. The 3d rendering is great for flash.
Still, I’m more a design than a tech man.
Good work!
March 12, 2007 at 6:29 pm |
yeah, I could have used some help with graphics work
It’s definitely intended to be more of a demo of possibilities with the current version of PV3D.
The controls are pretty typical for a flight sim, but I *could* have done some other help things like a bit more roll on the turns etc. I added a little roll when you turn, but I personally like more literal control over the orientation of the ship.
Many of the features of this game are a pre-cursor to my next game “The Trench Run”
March 13, 2007 at 11:07 pm |
New era of Flash gaming? Yeah, I think so. В« Papervision3D
Quote:
I just released my first Papervision3D game this last friday (3/9/2007) , and received a ton of great feedback from users who tried the ObstacleCourse game. Thanks to EVERYONE who went out and put up their best scores!! Its been alot of fun to s…
March 15, 2007 at 3:46 pm |
[...] 3D is rockin!!! They’re taking flash gaming to a whole new level. Have fun!! (not advised for laptops, you’re definitely gonna want to play this with a mouse) [...]
March 18, 2007 at 5:31 pm |
As far i know, the Gnash project currently supports opengl, we don’t need to wait for Adobe. Do some modifications in it’s source, implement AS->C++ hardware communicating interface (Gnash is in C++). Don’t write letters to Adobe, just work
March 20, 2007 at 2:53 am |
[...] http://blog.papervision3d.org/2007/03/11/new-era-of-flash-gaming-yeah-i-think-so/ Papervision 3d is a 3d gaming engine for Flash 8 and 9. Check out video in a 3d environment. http://leebrimelow.com/loader.html And some other great demos here. http://www.osflash.org/papervision3d [...]
April 5, 2007 at 7:16 am |
John Grden, you’re a pimp and I’d let you bitch slap me anytime. Where’s my Vader tie-fighter?
April 10, 2007 at 6:43 pm |
It is an impressive demo for Papervision3D, and I have a lot of respect for the developers behind the P3D engine, but I honestly don’t think that we are likely to see anything more than 3D Amiga-like demos coming from P3D or any other AS3 based 3D engine.
If Adobe introduced hardware acceleration into the Flash Player then I imagine that would help, but Adobe won’t do that ( and most developers wouldn’t want them to, including myself ) because it would increase the file size of the Flash Player exponentially.
There is still a whole world of 2D gaming to be explored in AS3 and I think that we will start to see some great games immerging as soon as people start to realise that Flash just isn’t capable of doing any “good” 3D at useable/playable speeds.
As I said it is a very impressive technology demo, and I have nothing against people pushing the boundaries of Flash, I just don’t think this 3D phase will last too much longer once people realise that engines such as P3D are getting close to their limitations. It would be fantastic if Flash could handle 3D well but it isn’t a realistic goal to aim for, not until we have 8GHZ machines as standard anyway.
I think it is time for the 3D Flash heads to click their heels together three times and chant “there’s no place like home”. Once you’re back in the real I think you will be able to create some kick-ass 2D games engines.
Respect to the P3D developers though, you have done a great job.
April 10, 2007 at 7:53 pm |
Thanks Nutrox – much respect for your comment, and I know where you’re coming from on that
I can’t say I totally agree of course, but 2007 will prove one way or the other. I think beyond gaming, AS3/PV3D provides a TON more options in Flash now.
It’s not so much that we have a powerful engine, as it is that we now have a tremendous work flow with 3D applications now – making it about 1000x’s easier to produce good looking / web quality 3D presentations (be it games or marketing). That work flow brings alot more designers and 3D artists in general to the Flash world and that’s going to push Adobe to figure somethings out with hardware I think.
I could be wrong, but I think Adobe has alot more going on for 3D in the coming years that we probably realize. What with the support for Collada in Photoshop, I think that right there says volumes.
Thanks for the comments Nutrox, appreciate your time very much,
April 16, 2007 at 8:30 am |
[...] Original post by neoriley [...]
April 28, 2007 at 5:05 pm |
I would to give this a whirl. is there a simple how-to around to get me started.
great demo!
thanks,
bill
April 29, 2007 at 4:31 am |
really can’t be ignorant to people’s complaints about not being able to easily play the game. that’s very important. you can’t pull a superiority complex because you know how to do it and someone else doesn’t. you have to design for the masses. and if you don’t, you don’t make any money. anyway – i’m starting to dig this papervision. cool stuff!
April 29, 2007 at 4:38 am |
Hey Tom, it’s not that I’m trying to be stubborn (although, Chris Allen says I’m very)
what I was trying to say is: This is playable, it’s just not the usual “flash” playable – its based completely on the original game from 1992. The controls are identical for flight and I probably did a very POOR job in explaining HOW to fly.
My point is, I’m going to make it very challenging and engaging. I totally agree with you to the extent that I want a large number of people to play it, but I draw the line at making the game a typical “flash” game just so someone can use they’re drawing tablet like they do on all the other flash games out there. And that’s EXACTLY my point. The game’s hard, no doubt about it. But to everyone who’s wrangled the controls – I’ve given them some REAL sense of accomplisment I think.
If you ever played BattleField 1942 with the Desert combat mod, you remember the helicopters. NO body could fly them for the longest time and you’d hop in and just pray you didn’t knudge the mouse left or right until you were over your area and then you bailed out. But then, someone finally figured out the controls, and then laid absolute waste to EVERYONE on the map, even the tanks. When I figured out how to fly the choppers, I was completely stoked and I wouldn’t trade that skill for anything nor those 3 months of complete domination in the game.
So, I do want to be open to making the game playable and fun, but also seriously rewarding. Not 5 minutes on a coffee break fun – hours of hoping your boss doesn’t walkin as you waste an entire day kind of fun
April 29, 2007 at 4:42 am |
PS> Tom, you’re right, when money is involved, it’s completely different story. I would agree with you. When it’s MY time involved, I do it my way for sure. So, I think your comment was very appropriate and well received, thanks for taking time man
John
May 6, 2007 at 8:30 am |
very gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 6, 2007 at 1:49 pm |
Thanks Kunal!
May 10, 2007 at 2:04 pm |
[...] New era of Flash gaming? Yeah, I think so. В« Papervision3D New era of Flash gaming? Yeah, I think so. В« Papervision3D [...]
May 10, 2007 at 2:06 pm |
[...] comment on blog post: Pete Says: March 12th, 2007 at 10:17 am I think its interesting that with the advent of systems such as xbox live – we are starting to see [...]
December 17, 2007 at 7:39 pm |
izvenite no nam nado sdelat test
vi ved ne bydete protiv admini
April 7, 2010 at 7:48 pm |
Who remembers playing the best flash game of all time? The legendary flash helicopter game at http://www.officialhelicoptergame.com/.